Placebo VS Ghaza? | Two Sides to One Story
Jun 19th 2010 Jad Jawhari What do you think?

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A recent upheaval has occurred in Lebanon, people boycotting the Placebo concert because they were playing in Israel the night before. A lot of people boycotted the event but a lot others didn’t, and that wasn’t the only thing that was happening. People were literally bashing each other on Facebook in the most uncivilized way possible. They were calling the people who wanted to boycott the concert as being Ignorant and the others labeled the people who wanted to attend the concert as being non-supportive of Ghaza. I myself am not against any of these two sides, because both of them have logical reasoning to their actions and ideas.

  • People Boycotting the Concert

I respect these people a lot for taking a stand and for trying to make a change for once. The boycotting my friends is merely a symbol, it is not against Placebo it is just a symbol reflecting the ideas of some people in the most peaceful way ever! We are always used to violent and uncivilized protests in Lebanon and we never actually stand against these acts,on the contrary we tend to avoid them and disregard them. The people who boycotted the Placebo concert were the complete opposite of the former ones, they just wanted everyone to know WHY they are boycotting it and for what reasons. A lot of people failed to notice the reason and they just started randomly cursing and dissing the organizers of this boycott. I found that utterly immature, because the boycott came from people who see the details and in one way or another they are radicals! And they are logical in their claim, boycotting a band for playing in Israel is a logical thing to do, it is as if they are saying that we don’t accept anyone who steps into Israel because it is as if they support them. Which is true RELATIVE to them. Try to understand their point of view and try to see what they are seeing because I am sure that you can do that and I am sure that you will be able to see the logic behind their actions. What really pissed me off is when people started laughing at them and when people started calling them ignorant without understanding why they are boycotting the concert. We tend to judge people directly in Lebanon and we tend to call them names directly as well, we think of ourselves as people who are very “Knowledgeable” not knowing that to some extent we are ignorant ourselves. There were many people who are ignorant to the facts of boycotting Placebo and yet they still were calling names, and labeling themselves in an indirect way as activists.

Gaza

  • People Not Boycotting the Concert

Now as I said above I am not with any side and I understand each side perfectly well. I understand why people chose not to boycott the event, because in the long run these concerts in a way or another might actually unite Lebanon and Israel in a very absurd way. Music in its very form is a tool for uniting people and nations, music is not racist, it is not judgmental and it doesn’t prefer kind of people over the other. Placebo were playing a concert for the Israeli citizens and they were not playing one for the Israeli military and commandos. If you people want to really boycott everything Israeli I think you should start with boycotting Starcbucks, Nestle and other companies that have confessed as being supportive of Israel: Financially, mentally and emotionally. But we tend to overlook it and to ignore it because it is so hard for us to suddenly stop attending Starbucks and such places and to boycott companies supporting Israel. This kind of boycott is much better and much more productive than boycotting en event, for this boycott is directly targeting all supporters of Israel. Music should not be boycott, artists’ political views should not be an important issue when they are playing a concert because music is higher than that and music has transcended to a level above all humanity and it has found its place among the sacred. Attending the Placebo concert is a way for letting other bands and artists know that in Lebanon there is a rock and metal scene, and there are a lot of people who love this kind of music. Placebo, Anathema and Hail are first bands among others to visit Lebanon and if we start being “Lebanese” whenever every band does something we don’t appreciate I think bands will eventually stop coming to our country. Last but not least and as I mentioned in this paragraph, people should boycott other things and not boycott music because music is the sole remaining element that targets all human beings.

placebo

To sum it all up, we must all understand each other before we decide to attack one another. We tend to call others ignorant before checking ourselves in the mirror. Arguments require the gathering of facts in order to be credible and convincing, bashing and dissing won’t get anyone anywhere, on the contrary it will just make the other “side” more hostile.

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  • Dangerous unknown

    Ghaza or Placebo ?

    Do you actually think they will make a change in Lebanon ?

    Why don’t they do it in other countries ? Like Jordany, Saudi Arabia, Kuweit and those other so called arab countries?
    Why does Lebanon have to fight a war for a cause that brought its economy down and destroyed its beautiful country ?

    Placebo brings money to Lebanon, Ghaza brings war.

    Any sane person would avoid war or clash, and would chose Placebo.

    And like you said, music is above anything.

    I mean fine, we have taken Israel as no 1 lebanese enemy, but that doesn’t mean we should
    act stupid, and boycott everything that brings money to the lebanese economy.

    We might aswell boycott Microsoft, because it’s funded by Israelies.

    Don’t try to justify the boycott, it’s objectively unjustifiable!

  • Mr.BK

    we dont have to boycott anything ,coz hek badon yena na3mil la ndal ma7alna
    Egypt madye mou3ahadit salem ma3 Israel nos bled l 3arab madye coz bya3erfo enno masle7ton ya3emlo hal chi bas bi derouwa 3al alebanon manou3 w lezim ndom sawetna la ghazza ,ok ne7na 7addon bas mich lama hal chi y2asir 3al aiktisadna ,so bi ra2ye all the ppl that have boycott the evnet keno da7iyet 3alam ma bada lebnen tkoun ases l sa2afe wel 7adara ben l arab

  • Jad Jawhari

    Thank you for the comment. I agree with what you said, you are right. I am a radical and I don’t think boycotting a concert will actually affect Ghaza in any way! It is relatively unnecessary. But I also understand why people will want to boycott it, there is more than one side to every story.

  • JWB

    gr8 article (Y)
    though I don’t think Politics should take part in music ..
    Placebo performed in Israel .. so what ? It’s the music we care about not political views nor religious views ..

  • each one support Ghazza! in it’s way, no boycotting is necessary because the money is not going for the israely government only ( having a concert their), money is coming to our dear Lebanon also and these concerts affects in a positive way the economy and the image of freedom and Tourism in LEBANON.
    The Struggle is on from 1948 between us and israel, but music does not have to do with it,music unites different cultures…. in the other hand lets look at this in a different way, instead of boycotting the concert, we must have done the opposite thing, support it to the max, because in this way we tend to prove something so important, and we send a message to ISRAEL that we are a very competetive country in terms of Tourism, and nightlife, in that was we make a presance in the inetnationnal scene wish has a great impact on the growth of our economy! and that what most kills israel our ENEMY!

  • Dangerous unknown

    Seriously, that Israel/Palestine bullshit is starting to piss me off !

    It doesn’t concern us people ! Why did we drag ourselves into that shitty cause

  • Manar

    Regardless of whether or not boycotting the concert was a sane or rational choice, I think some people should start educating themselves about the particular “Cause” they are targeting at before they start talking about it in such a way as to “destroy our beautiful country Lebanon”.
    That’s for you Dangerous Anonymous:
    First off, as an answer to your first question, all the Arab countries you mentioned, have non-democratic regimes(i.e. If they try to revolt they are immediately repressed or rather “dealt with” in certain violent ways) , and if they are called democratic on wikipedia or in the media, doesn’t make them so. The second distinction is that these countries, have treaties with Israel: Peace( Saudi Arabia, Jordan)and other treaties: Trade, conflict resolution (Kuwait..) and we obviously have nothing of that sort with Israel.
    Also, true, Placebo provides income, not necessarily income for the country, mostly for its Big Businesses or bel mshabra7 its “Capitalists” ( i.e. the organizers and the sponsors of the Placebo Event). Beep* False, Ghaza does NOT bring war to Lebanon, because Pan- Arabism is so 60s .. Palestine and Lebanon are two distinct countries.
    Boycotting the concert as boycotting certain genres of unfavorable music or Starbucks or whatever is a matter of dogma and it doesn’t come out of the blue. Now it being stupid or not, that’s something else.
    Plus, just as you “subjectively justified the non-boycott of the event” , the opposite is logically true, therefore, sensibly, one can “objectively justify the boycott of the event”. It’s called Objective Relativism, and it’s required when you write such articles on such websites.
    IT DOES concern “US” people because if you read about the Zionist Ideology you’ll get what I mean, in terms of territorial markings and ideologies of how Lebanon and Palestine are under one category to the Zionists and this category should be destroyed for the “Chosen People” to rejoice over this victory of theirs. (= Apartheid in Lebanon, just like what they’re doing in Palestine)
    Whether you like it or not, we are next and you’re part of this country.
    And for Mr. BK:
    Ma hadan beddu yek to boycott anything khayye, inta you are free to decide for yourself, ma hadan 7emel 3asaye w 2allak mamnou3 trou7 3ala Placebo ahsan ma eje 2e2etlak bellel aw 2ate3 Burger King.
    Our system here is unfortunately a fake democracy, however it’s still allows you to think freely w ma drure ta3mel follower lal beddon ma yemdu mu3ehadet salem ma salem ma3 Israel. Bta3mel el beddak ye. When these people start constitutionally ruling the country and targeting you for doing such things, then you can complain about it.
    Lastly, people, it is a matter of ideology when it comes to these things! People have certain ideologies that breed “causes”.
    Also, if only people could mentally prosper and start realizing that our country is not waging others’ wars on its grounds only, it is waging its war because we still have lands and prisoners of wars to free, and wars of liberation to win.

    Lastly, it is a matter of ideology when it comes to this and people have certain ideologies that breed “causes”.
    Also, if only people could mentally prosper and start realizing that our country is not waging others’ wars on its grounds only, it is waging its war because we still have lands and prisoners of wars to free, and wars to win.

  • Hady Naal

    flawless

  • Jad Jawhari

    I need to be clear that my opinion here is not stated, this article is merely a representation of the thoughts of both the boycotters and the attenders. My opinion will not be stated here for the preservation of objectivity.

  • Ms Manar I totally agree with you in terms what you said, but that’s politics, here we are focusing on the music… let’s not forget our main subject, boycotting concerts in Lebanon is an insane idea! I CONSIDER ISRAEL MY BIGGEST ENEMY, but Still i love to watch ORPHANED LAND for example playing ! it’s all for us being uniited by music !

  • Nizar Hawat

    Manar (Y)

  • Dangerous unknown

    This cause is a pure palestinian cause , to free palestine. This is how it all started, when Belfour promised the jews to give them Israel.
    All so called “arab” nations declared war on Israel. To free Palestine.

    And why should I care about the palestinians who tried to kill my ancestors and kick me
    out of my OWN country, after hosting them with open arms when the king of Jordany kicked them out ?

    If a group of people wants to free Palestine, let it be, like you said, I agree with you and your free will statement.
    However, note that another group will definitly get pissed off when someone tries to ruin a good event for the country.

  • Dangerous unknown

    I would just like to note one thing about winning wars.
    We win wars with education, with technological advancement, with culture, with evolution, with intelligence.

    That’s how we win wars. We don’t win wars by throwing ridiculous rockets. We win wars by sending out satellites to space, by creating our own weapons. If only people could mentally prosper and start realizing that this is the way to fight, and not throwing rocks and rockets.

  • Manar

    Thankyou Nizar=].
    Samer I understand, but I INTENDED to talk of this dogmatically politically. This article deserves 50%discussion on Politics and 50% discussion on Music merely because its title contains Ghaza (Here,Politics), and Placebo(Music). Also, I chose to comment about the other half of the story, the poliitical one, as a reply to certain comments.
    If you reread my first sentence, you’ll understand. By the way, I really feel neutral about whether or not we should boycott the concert.
    We can be united by music, in abstract terms, but in reality Orphaned Land can never come to Lebanon as long as there is no sort of a Political Pact involved.
    Besides, one can never detach anything from Politics, and not necessarily Politics in its academic sense. And this for one is obviously a Politico-Musical issue.

  • Manar

    I beg to differ, the cause is not purely Palestinian, If you reread what I wrote carefully, you’ll see what I mean. I do not care to repeat myself twice. In addition and correction, the Balfour Declaration is just another declaration in favor of the dynasty of the Jewish people, that doesn’t mean it is where the Zionist ideology emerged. It clearly as everyone knows had its earliest historical origins in the Hebrew Bible..

    In addition to what you said about a group “getting pissed” and another rejoicing, There is always one who loses, one who wins, there is no mediation in such things, there is always the oppressed and the oppressor. As the great Hegel once said, and by this statement of his, summarized the existence of the world as a whole, “Man exists only insofar as he is opposed.”
    Besides, we should also mentally prosper and get over the argument about us not being able to evolve because of our Arab Being. It’s way beyond that. Fi shi ismo economic factors, fi shi ismo social factors, fi cultural factors too), w fi environmental determinism(Which I’ll later publish an article about) (w iza beddak I’m willing to discuss them 3ala janab ahsan ma zahhe2 people who don’t expect these comments here).
    Clear enough, but still, we have to wake up already and stop thinking in a sectarian way. Enough of that bullshit, enough of that herd mentality! Religion and Government have never existed together in the first place, from the first emergence of the first state and they won’t till the end of all history. The fall of most empires and monarchies are due to the existence of these two contradicting dynamics together as a façade of one.
    That’s how most of the First World Countries have won their wars(separating both factors), bas we cannot deny that they didn’t go through wars of bloodshed and crusades which our region has not yet passed through as they did in a broader sense of this.

    In politics and in history, there are certain prerequisites for reaching what you are aiming at of wars of education and sending rockets outside Earth and all that. They include Wars in their actual terms , actual wars where there is some sort of physical suffering, mental suffering to prepare and rise over the mundane sense of wars later on (Wars of Education). We can never have Wars of Education before having actual wars which bring radical suffering for most of the country if not all of it. These wars are those which breed revolutions and give rise to new ideologies of evolution and peace.
    The only region in the world that has not yet experienced democratization is the Arab Region which has went through different political phases and colonial experiences as the developing world you and I want it to be. We still have a lot to go through first, and in this region of the Arab World, we have to separate the existence of Government as a Religious sphere in Politics with a religious influence on it.

  • Dangerous unknown

    Oppressed doesn’t necessarily mean wrong. If a majority is following a wrong ideology that will not build a good country , then I don’t see the point of evolution.

    Do you believe that rockets are the solution ?

  • Jad Jawhari

    Dangerous Unknown, sorry to say it but Manar is right. She seems more knowledgable when it comes to matters like this and her arguments are more logical, relatively speaking of course.

  • Manar

    The oppressed are always wrong because of the mere fact that they are the oppressed.
    1- They feel they are weak and accept their weakness, and surrender for the oppressors(which I have a preference over, ofcourse).
    2- They are tricked into feeling, that one day they will rejoice, and due to their laziness and the power of the opressors(which are almost all the time, A LOT less than they are) they lose.
    3- Only the opressed who later revolt and win are the ones who are right.

    I told you there are phases which we have to pass through before we evolve, and you keep rephrasing your questions, I already explained in paragraphs.
    If you want me to answer simply, plainly, here goes:
    For the time being, there has to be rockets as an answer(just like the developed Europeans used them , it’s out time to use them.)
    I told you, we still have a long way to reach evolution and democracy, we still haven’t!

    Thanks Jad;). Manar and might are always right. ;)..

    Hope that answers your question, and if you want I am willing to discuss anything, aside.

  • Dangerous unknown

    “The oppressed are always wrong because of the mere fact that they are the oppressed.”

    Ah really ? So you point a weapon to their heads, coercing them to be oppressed ? Therefore they’re undisputably wrong ?
    Very logical indeed, I’m starting to see your point.

    And about phases we have to pass before evolving… well yes, and they don’t involve rockets.

    They involve helping build the economy, build a better education, have freedom and open mindness, and not be bound by a ridiculous cause that does not concern us.
    Yes, I say it, the Israeli – Palestinian cause does not concern Lebanon.
    Your answer cleared it all. Rockets that do nothing but harm ( to us) are acceptable. I salute you for that.

    You speak about open mindness, and about objectivity, while you have been brainwashed by your society that Israel is the greater evil.
    (The author’s preference ( Jad ) has been very clear to everyone, and his side is very brazen )

    If we keep allowing this kind of propaganda ( which you do very good ), then we are simply allowing the error to grow.
    ( I’m anticipating the reply: “Which error Anonymous ??? ” )

    Let’s do a little arithmetic reasoning.
    Lebanon is in dept of 40 billion dollars. Small efforts are being made to promote a better economy, such as creating musical events.
    Your argument is that the money made by Placebo’s gig does not really benefit Lebanon. This is where I say you do a great propaganda, trying to hide the facts
    with an assertion that is wrong. Why is it wrong?

    One event leads to another. When you have major events going on in Lebanon, the country becomes a touristical one, attracting millions of tourists all over the world.
    Also, such improvements can also constitute a reason to the 11 million immigrants who happen to actually HAVE money made from abroad. Those people can actually return
    to their country and invest more in properties, projects, restaurants. Hell, if the country gets stable, international events such a Formula 1 could happen in Lebanon,
    bringing an income of 1 billion dollars to the government , only for 1 event!

    So you see, that is why the most important thing for a country to evolve, is for it to be stable, away from war and causes that will only harm him.

    But off course, when you got people extolling war, do not expect Lebanon to improve!

    You talk about majority ? The majority already left lebanon! That is where your country is going.
    Your country will be a mere tool in a coming World War, a battleground where big countries will lead their fights.
    It will turn to another IRAQ , where chaos is spread, and sunits and shi’its kill each other.
    11 million people left and are not willing to return. 11 damn million ( if not more ), what right is that ?

    Whatever you will try to say will never ever justify a war in Lebanon that has already fuckin suffered more than it can handle.
    So leave the country in peace…

  • Manar

    I’ll leave you and your trivialities in peace too ;).

    I don’t care to further argue with you, because it’s either you read half my arguments or you come reciting your Geography lesson for me, which I OBVIOUSLY don’t need.
    (I’M WAY WAY BEYOND THAT)
    I think I’ve shared more than enough of my intellects with you.

    Jad mentioned relativism, didn’t he?

    A tiny piece of advice: You have to read everything carefully if you are willing to go into discussions like that, or else, all in vain.
    Go find someone else, and let me go plan my next war against the Lebanese economy or hmmm.. maybe just “Ignorance”, elsewhere.

    Have fun rereading what I wrote, for my words are of a treasure’s worth and more and more!

    AND BTW , I am proud of my purely dogmatic nature!! It brings me delight and eternal pleasure!

  • Dangerous unknown

    Alright since some people don’t know how to reason.
    Let’s get back to the basics. Aristotle reasoning.

    I argued that the boy-cotters were wrong to boycott Placebo.
    You counter argued (with a whole paragraph, nothing interesting in it, simply litterature beauty) by saying that the cause
    was indeed justified.
    You replied that indeed the cause was lebanese ( referring to the zionism , and how we are next), and was a dogma that can be justified.
    You said that it was an ideology , and that ideologies clash.

    I replied that when a certain Ideology is wrong, it should not be praised, and it should be fought!
    I also emphasized the fact that even if a “war” is unavoidable, current methods of fighting it were simply ridiculous and counter-productive.

    You answered back with a statement that said ” Enough of that bullshit, enough of that herd mentality! Religion and Government have never existed together in the first place, from the first emergence of the first state and they won’t till the end of all history”
    However, you seemed to have missed the fact that the whole Palestinian cause is religiously biased.
    You also stated : “3- Only the opressed who later revolt and win are the ones who are right.”
    Well I answered you with something you avoided:
    “Ah really ? So you point a weapon to their heads, coercing them to be oppressed ? Therefore they’re undisputably wrong ?”

    You also chose to ignore a lot of arguments, because you can’t answer them.
    Facts are facts and false propagandas eventually unveil.

    And now you use the “you don’t know how to read card” , the same thing can apply to you.

    However, I will simply this as much as I can with a little equation:

    1) Boycotting

    Boycotting a band because it was in israel
    >>>> Israel is the greater enemy
    >>>> Fuck our country’s economy as long as those zionist rot
    >>>> So what if we send out rockets to Israel and provoke a war ? We are being modest and humble and we are fighting for a cause.
    >>>> Our cause is modest , liberal , democratic ( yeah right ) , and humanitarian.

    2) The counter argument
    No, we should not boycott Placebo:
    >>>>”One event leads to another. When you have major events going on in Lebanon, the country becomes a touristical one, attracting millions of tourists all over the world.
    Also, such improvements can also constitute a reason to the 11 million immigrants who happen to actually HAVE money made from abroad. Those people can actually return
    to their country and invest more in properties, projects, restaurants. Hell, if the country gets stable, international events such a Formula 1 could happen in Lebanon,
    bringing an income of 1 billion dollars to the government , only for 1 event!
    So you see, that is why the most important thing for a country to evolve, is for it to be stable, away from war and causes that will only harm him.”

    >>>> Fighting with rockets is not the solution , being advanced is.
    >>>> Suppose we believed in the cause and we had to fight the war. Money = power, technology, military evolution and cultural improvement.
    So you guessed it, no money , no cause no nothing. Just another Afghanistan and Iraq.

    So basically, at first I demonstrated that the Placebo event actually plays a big role in the economy even if indirectly.
    Next , I proved to you that without money, none of your valours have meaning, and your war is going definitly to a certain loss.

    What do you want more, I just proved that the boycott is ridiculous, using YOUR OWN dogma.
    YOUR OWN DOGMA 🙂

    This is pure objective reasoning , if you don’t want to believe it fine don’t !
    You have you own ideology ( even if false ), and Jad can no longer claim that his article is objective, since I demonstrated that the boycott is wrong.

    Thank you , and have a nice PEACEFUL day 🙂

  • mike Azazzian

    ……oh come on

  • Mr.BK

    manar BK =bou khalil

  • Mr.BK

    ba3den ya manar hala2 kil l fhemti enno ana m3asab enno min l boycott walla min l mabda2 l ghalat l mechyo fi? ekhir hamme placebo bas fi tefkir ghalat 3am bi sir
    NM